Chris Hipkins was unequivocal.
Labour’s leader had been asked to clarify his position on Te Ao with Moana (Whakaata Māori).
The issue of Māori sovereignty has been front and centre at major hui throughout the country.
Following the Koroneihana (the week-long celebration of King Tūheitia’s coronation anniversary) and after questioning from Greens co-leader Chloe Swarbrick, the Prime Minister told Parliament he believed Māori ceded sovereignty to the Crown.
On Monday night, Hipkins made it clear on Te Ao with Moana that he disagreed.
“It’s pretty clear that, if you follow the various court rulings over time, if you follow all of the academic research, if you actually follow the Treaty settlement process, that the answer to that question is no,” Hipkins said.
“That doesn’t mean that the Crown doesn’t have sovereignty now but Māori didn’t cede sovereignty in signing the Treaty.
‘There are going to be areas where it’s a bit messy’
Given Te Tiriti has always been about recognising the unique constitutional arrangement between rangatira (on behalf of iwi and hapū) and Governor William Hobson (on behalf of the British Crown), how did Chris Hipkins see that playing out now in contemporary times?
“I think the way we exercise our authority to reflect the principles and that includes article two of the Treaty, which recognizes tino rangatiratanga, that that’s been the conversation. That’s what we’ve spent the past four or five decades is working out how to do that,” Hipkins said.
‘Now, it doesn’t encapsulate into nice, neat little sound bites because there are going to be areas where it’s a bit messy as we work our way through what that looks like.
“But simply saying, ‘let’s just stop all of that and start again in a way that writes Māori out of the picture’, which is what the Treaty Principles Bill, based on the reports we’ve had so far, suggests the government wants to do, I think it’s just the wrong approach.”
Asked how he might deal with “dog whistling over co-governance”, the former prime minister insisted he would challenge it “head on”.
‘Designed to scratch a racist itch – I’ll call them out’
“I think that was something we were reluctant to do as a government, and I think we’ll do a lot more of it.
“Where I see things that are designed deliberately to scratch a racist itch, I’ll call them out and I’ll call them out in strong terms.
“You can’t solve these intergenerational challenges with slogans. You’ve actually got to be more thoughtful than that.”
The Labour leader admitted his own government failed to allay the fears of New Zealanders in the lead-up to the election.
“In areas like water reform and that debate on co-governance, I think as a government, we let that one get away on us. And what we were doing there was justifiable. It was explainable, and we didn’t make the public case stronger enough, and we should have.”
Labour has watched much of its policies and strategies dismantled in just under nine months under the new coalition government. The volume, scale and pace of change has seen the government break records for the number of laws it has passed in its first hundred days.
Constitutional expert’s warning
Former prime minister Sir Geoffrey Palmer QC, (who in 1985 initiated major consultations over legal recognition of Māori rights under the Treaty) has since expressed concern that over 30 bills have been introduced under urgency. These include repeal of fair pay legislation, the disestablishment of the Māori Health Authority, the changes to the smoke-free legislation, the gang legislation, the Local Government Act on Māori wards and the Fast-track Approvals Bill.
When asked if that’s just what new governments did – “ditch everything from previous governments” – Hipkins disagreed.
“I think it’s a feature of this government. But if you look at the Key government taking over from the Clark government, Ardern taking over from the Key government, we didn’t see that. We saw a lot of the things that were happening continue. Yes, there was a shift in emphasis sometimes about how we moved forward but we didn’t just come into government in 2017 and just jettison everything the previous government had been doing. We sought to build on it, where there was a good foundation to build from.”
‘Bold plan’ as Greens shoot for the top
In an interview on the same episode of Te Ao with Moana, Greens co-leader Chloe Swarbrick signaled her intention to make the Greens the lead party in opposition. It’s a move Hipkins described that plan as “optimistic”.
But given young voters are likely to be scrutinising parties to see which ones will be ‘brave and bold’, Hipkins was asked what Labour would do?
‘I think a lot of young New Zealanders also want to know that the plans that we’re putting forward are credible and we’re going to deliver on the things that we say we’re going to do. So my goal for the next election is that we are going to have a bold plan for New Zealand’s future but it’s going to be credible and it’s going to be deliverable.”
Asked if he intended to lead the party into the next election or was ‘the caretaker,’ Hipkins was once again unequivocal.
“No, I’m absolutely in this to win the next election. I had nine months as prime minister. I learned a lot during that time. That means that I’ll be ready to hit the ground running after the next election.”
Te Ao with Moana (Whakaata Māori)
Monday, 8pm