This article was first published by Stuff.
The host of an RNZ podcast that was pulled from publication said anyone “white, male, pale, or stale” could have been prime minister.
Anika Moa made the comments about Christopher Luxon on an episode of her podcast It’s Personal with Anika Moa, which featured former Labour MP Kiri Allan.
The podcast episode was pulled by RNZ in September, with the public broadcaster saying it didn’t meet their standards of impartiality.
“It could have been anyone white, pale, male, or stale. It could have been my Grandad, you know. People wanted to vote for National because they were sick of Jacinda and Labour. Not me of course, I am just talking for the people, the farmers,” Moa said.
The musician went on to say “everything they do in parliament is white man rules, white women rules, white this, white that, whitewash.”
When discussing Allan’s entry into politics, the former Labour MP said she had been courted by all the political parties to run for parliament.
Moa responded by saying “were they wanting to top up the colours, add a bit of brown to white town”.
The public service broadcaster had promoted Allan’s appearance on the podcast but decided not to air the episode following an “editorial check”.
“During the interview some topics raised included past news events which still have currency. When applied against our editorial policy, RNZ concluded more context would have been needed on impartiality grounds to allow the interview to be published,” RNZ told Stuff.
“RNZ makes no apology for upholding its editorial policy. We have enjoyed working with the production company and have happily published dozens of their podcasts. On this rare occasion we decided not to publish. Our decision and the reasons for this were discussed directly with the production company.”
Stuff acquired a copy of the podcast under the Official Information Act.
During the episode, Allan said she felt obliged to stay on as an MP given her powerful position, but deep down wanted to go.
“I told people I wanted to quit. I needed something fundamentally big to change and I didn’t know what it was.”
“I needed to get out. I wasn’t doing okay. But I felt like I couldn’t quit. I felt very obliged to stay, like here you are in this very powerful position, you should be grateful or something.”
Allan said her internal battle to stay or go came at the beginning of 2023, during a time when her mental health was at a low point.
“There was a period at the beginning of last year where I felt like I couldn’t breathe for a period of time, like kind of clutching for a lifeboat and there just wasn’t one there. I really couldn’t manage it anymore, and it just became bigger and darker and deeper.”
She added a real pivot point came after she gave a speech at RNZ at her ex-partner’s leaving party where she criticised the public broadcaster for their treatment of Māori staff.
“It kind of just unlocked this tone where every story from there out basically became this really negative one about me. It took one thing and it just started this rolling ball.”
Allan said this impacted her personal life in a big way. “You are dealing with that stuff sitting over there, then you’re trying to do your actual job which is here, and that takes up all of that space, then you’re a failing parent, a failing partner, you’re just never there, you’re not there.”
On her drink-driving, Allan said to Moa, “it’s a funny one, the story was I was rip-roaring drunk, got DIC’ed, crashed a car, got run down by dogs, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That night was horrible, but first I’ll say it was nowhere near even close to one of my worst nights. It was just a shitty one that everyone saw. Secondly, I had consumed some drinks before driving – no one should ever do that – [but] it didn’t reach a threshold for DIC.”
Allan wasn’t charged for her breath alcohol level of 335mcg (criminal charges only apply to readings over 400mcg), but she was charged and convicted in May for refusing to accompany police after crashing a car while driving over the legal alcohol limit.
After resigning from parliament, Allan said she was diagnosed with ADHD and PTSD, but said she initially thought her behaviour was “normal”.
“Being diagnosed with ADHD was really confronting for me because I didn’t believe it was a real diagnosis. When they diagnosed me, I was like, absolutely not pal, that is not a real thing. So I had to get tested again. It turns out it is a real thing.”
On getting the diagnosis, Allan said she was at such a shattered point in her life and that something had gone so fundamentally wrong, describing herself as “pretty broken”.
“Basically it took 10 weeks to go sit on a couch in my parent’s house, and cry, or whatever else it is that you do. So it was through that period that I was getting all the diagnoses.”
Also during the podcast, Allan reflected on her time as an MP, describing parliament as a tool to try and get things done, but that real change still comes from outside the Beehive.
“Did I think the revolution was going to start there, did I think mana motuhake was going to come from that place, absolutely not. I think that our mana motuhake comes from us, for us, so if we want to do that, we’ll do it.”
Allan said the parliamentary system was not designed for Māori women, citing the number of wahine Māori MPs who had left parliament under a cloud.
“The system wasn’t designed for us, it wasn’t by us. That machinery is made to eat you. Every single one of us has left that place in not positive ways.”
She believes wahine Māori are treated differently within the walls of parliament.
“We are different, and it is easy to pounce upon those differences every single time.”
“The words that were often prescribed to strong Māori women, ‘she’s just so aggressive’, ‘what she’s saying is all right but if she could just tone it down a bit’. And then you would say one thing in exactly the same way as a different demography would, at exactly the same meeting, and the way you are received, the response is just immeasurably different.”
As for her life outside politics, Allan said she was enjoying being a mum, a job she said was harder than politics.
“Your life isn’t owned by everybody else now, it’s owned by a seven-year-old kid.”
“I love being a mum. It’s the most fulfilling thing. It’s frustrating, annoying, it ain’t all roses. But no, I love it. It’s the coolest job I’ve ever had.”
Allan said she didn’t think she would ever go back into parliament, or join another political party, but did preface this by saying “never say never”.
- Stuff